Learning

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Pasteur Byabeza on transitioning to self-management at Davis College

...called in a holacracy system, a lead link, and you're the lead link of the Student Care Circle. So how has the experience been for you? What have you learned in that new role? Pasteur Byabeza: So I've been assigned the role of lead link for several months. And I've learned so many lessons. I think the firs...more
...ience been for you? What have you learned in that new role? Pasteur Byabeza: So I've been assigned the role of lead link for several months. And I've learned so many lessons. I think the first one is I've learned to have an optimistic, positive view of my colleagues. A lead link is a little different from ...more
...ole? Pasteur Byabeza: So I've been assigned the role of lead link for several months. And I've learned so many lessons. I think the first one is I've learned to have an optimistic, positive view of my colleagues. A lead link is a little different from a traditional manager - but it is somehow the closest t...more
...gues. A lead link is a little different from a traditional manager - but it is somehow the closest to it, compared to other roles. So when I say I've learned to have an optimistic positive view of my colleagues, what I mean is that there's this belief that people dislike their work, and have to be tightly ...more
...an is that there's this belief that people dislike their work, and have to be tightly controlled - forced or even threatened to do their work. I have learned that people take pride in doing a good job, and inherently get great satisfaction from their work. That was lesson number one. My second lesson is t...more
...ple take pride in doing a good job, and inherently get great satisfaction from their work. That was lesson number one. My second lesson is that I've learned that information flow and access to information are really critical in a self managed circle. For a self managed team to be able to make good decisio...more
...sions they make. So that's why I said, it's very important to have access to information. So that was lesson two. Another very important lesson I've learned is that there is more accountability in a self manage team than in a traditional structure. So you probably know this misconception that in a self ma...more
...o hold each other accountable - shouldn't be some radical transparency in some psychological sense, you see. Another very important lesson that I've learned - and actually, this is the most important part. I should have started with it. It's crucial for all team members to develop skills that are needed f...more
...Lisa Gill: Yes, thank you for sharing that. It's interesting. I'm learning more and more as I speak to people on the podcast that there are so many different dimensions - and the culture that you start from totally influence...more
...me of my colleagues a lot of time to fully embrace the philosophy of self management. You see, as you know, operating in a self managed team requires learning and unlearning certain things. So I can confidently say that some of my colleagues never fully embraced this shift, because different people have dif...more
...f. So of course, there are many other challenges, but that's actually the main one. Another challenge that I believe we face is that no other higher learning institution had practiced self management before. So that was a very big challenge. So in an African context, or across the globe, I do not think tha...more
...ed self management before. So that was a very big challenge. So in an African context, or across the globe, I do not think that there are many higher learning institution that practice holacracy and self management. So, because of that, you can understand why most people were a little bit skeptical. We like...more
...y most people were a little bit skeptical. We like the idea of self management. It's brilliant - but is it really something that can work in a higher learning institution, or other organisations, or practice holacracy from other fields? Does it work for our business? We don't know, we don't have any other h...more
...w system. And that's how we wrote it out officially. There is one more challenge - and this one is connected to what was just mentioned. As a higher learning institution, we operate under directives that are set by our regulators. Our main regulatory institution is called the Higher Learning Education Coun...more
...d. As a higher learning institution, we operate under directives that are set by our regulators. Our main regulatory institution is called the Higher Learning Education Council, the Rwandan Higher Learning Education Council. This is a government agency. So we knew that reorganising our structure could poten...more
... under directives that are set by our regulators. Our main regulatory institution is called the Higher Learning Education Council, the Rwandan Higher Learning Education Council. This is a government agency. So we knew that reorganising our structure could potentially create some skepticism from their side. ...more
...Lisa Gill: I'm wondering, especially for people listening who are perhaps in higher learning institutions, or in schools or universities or any kind of situation where they're exploring self management as well - what would be your words of ad...more
...d that comes from a culture of embracing growth mindset. Another one is drawing the owl. That's our terminology, but it means getting things done and learning as you go. So those three together have really made a tremendous impact in our transition. So it's very important to set up institutional cultures th...more
...s or something. You know, I've spoken to people from mature self managing organisations that share these level of insights. And it sounds like you've learned so much already about what it takes to make this shift - some of the things that are challenging, some of the traps and misconceptions. So I'm just s...more

Amy Edmondson on psychological safety and the future of work

...ch a good word for it. It’s a journey that started with an accidental finding. I didn’t set out to study psychological safety. I set out to study the learning organisation. I wanted to know what you could do to make organisations better at learning from their experiences. I got an invitation to participate ...more
...t out to study psychological safety. I set out to study the learning organisation. I wanted to know what you could do to make organisations better at learning from their experiences. I got an invitation to participate in a study of medical error and I thought, well, errors are really important for learning ...more
... learning from their experiences. I got an invitation to participate in a study of medical error and I thought, well, errors are really important for learning — we learn from mistakes, it’s one of the core mechanisms of learning for human beings and probably should be an important phenomenon for organisatio...more
...n a study of medical error and I thought, well, errors are really important for learning — we learn from mistakes, it’s one of the core mechanisms of learning for human beings and probably should be an important phenomenon for organisations as well. So I came in to study… [and] I realised intuitively that ...more
... beings and probably should be an important phenomenon for organisations as well. So I came in to study… [and] I realised intuitively that where the learning happens is in teams because teams are doing the work. There’s some work, of course, that’s still done very much by individuals working alone, but an ...more
... but ultimately drawing on older literature I decided it was really this phenomenon called psychological safety at work. And the more I thought about learning and learning environments, the more I thought that learning environments are those that are characterised by psychological safety. So I wanted to st...more
...ly drawing on older literature I decided it was really this phenomenon called psychological safety at work. And the more I thought about learning and learning environments, the more I thought that learning environments are those that are characterised by psychological safety. So I wanted to study it in oth...more
... really this phenomenon called psychological safety at work. And the more I thought about learning and learning environments, the more I thought that learning environments are those that are characterised by psychological safety. So I wanted to study it in other contexts: in manufacturing, in service, not ...more
...f psychological safety that has since been used in hundreds of studies, in and out of healthcare, and finding that it has all sorts of connections to learning behaviours, but also to performance… And so, it’s been a kind of meandering journey and when you publish a paper that gets attention, other people pi...more
...LG: Yeah, that’s really helpful. Circling back to what you started talking about with your original interest in learning organisations… for me, a really useful model you have in your book “Teaming” that I share with people all the time is this four-box model about how t...more
...really useful model you have in your book “Teaming” that I share with people all the time is this four-box model about how to create what you call a “Learning Zone”. Because I think, especially when I‘m talking to people about exploring more self-managing or Agile ways of working, sometimes the misconceptio...more
...ortable.” I want people to be willing to take risks, but I don’t want people to be in the Comfort Zone, is one of the boxes in that model. And so the Learning Zone, as you point out, is the zone where you feel both very motivated to do a good job — and that means you probably care; maybe you care about the ...more
... in a volatile, uncertain, complex, ambiguous world. Things will go well and not well at different times, and not always in a predictable way. So the Learning Zone, it’s a little bit like the research by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi who talked about ‘flow’, where you have this sense of the challenge and your abi...more
...nventing Organisations’, and there are some very profound case studies in there. The self-managing organisation to me as a construct is much like the learning organisation in that it’s huge. It’s huge, it’s important, it’s aspirational, it’s what so many of us want. So those are huge aspirations, and psych...more
...l safety is just this sort of psychological, interpersonal experience that I would argue, it’s hard to have a genuinely self-managing organisation or learning organisation without some level of psychological safety. But they’re very different research targets — one has got lots of moving parts, you’ve gotta...more
...l find it unhelpful. That’s OK. Each and every one of us must be willing to learn from our missteps as well as from our successes. This is gonna be a learning process. Someone decides: “OK, I’d like to exercise a little more leadership at work, make a bigger difference for others, and for the task at work.”...more
...ities — psychological safety, and motivation and accountability — it’s both those things, not one or the other, that really creates an environment of learning and high performing teams. And that starts with thinking about more than just myself and seeing myself as being responsible for what shows up around ...more

Nand Kishore Chaudhary from Jaipur Rugs on love, collective consciousness and self-management

...arted growing like a wildfire. To support the rapid growth of the business I had to hire experienced professionals but all that put me upside down. I learned that knowledge is power. But too much knowledge and knowledge gained without practice doubles ego. Practitioners sometime get their skills without ha...more
...without practice doubles ego. Practitioners sometime get their skills without having the knowledge to break the ego of our professionals. I started a learning initiative, which we named Higher School of Unlearning. We made the professionals work with our older, uneducated people in different departments to ...more
... the business processes. I also took the challenge to teach them the basic fundamentals to manage the business and people like ours, which they never learned in schools and colleges. We also worked on the philosophy, 'finding yourself through losing yourself'. The more I lose myself, the more I find myself...more
...n schools and colleges. We also worked on the philosophy, 'finding yourself through losing yourself'. The more I lose myself, the more I find myself. Learning, unlearning and relearning is a continuous process and it brings the childlike innocence, which is important for the business to follow this in an or...more
...ou're really interested in taking it to the next level in terms of self-management. And really kind of decentralising. What is important to you about learning more about this and helping the organisation evolve in that way? NK Chaudhary: The problem started when I established the head office in 1999 in Jaip...more
...hen you and I spoke before you shared that. And you just mentioned there again, as well, that one of the challenges is in the head office, and you've learned a few lessons I think about hiring people and realising that perhaps the mindset change isn't possible or that they're too ingrained. So as you grow ...more
...ng self-management principles to fulfil the purpose of their organisation even more strongly? What advice would you give them in terms of what you're learning so far? NK Chaudhary: Find yourself through losing yourself. Because the more you lose yourself, the more you will find yourself. The problem is not ...more
...Lisa Gill: I think this is something that I'm learning more and more that if we really want everyone to flourish and create an environment based on self-management principles, it's not going to happen by ...more
...se what we see, what we hear, what we listen to, is only 10 to 15%. And 80% is hidden in the iceberg. I also went to see Otto Scharmer in Boston, and learned about Theory U and then I started working on my own iceberg. And that changed me a lot. Because what I found was that whatever we do, we work very ha...more
...Lisa Gill: Yeah. I'm curious what else you've learned because I'm sure many people listening are perhaps even envious that you've spoken to some of my big heroes like Frederic Laloux and Doug and Miki, y...more
...ople listening are perhaps even envious that you've spoken to some of my big heroes like Frederic Laloux and Doug and Miki, you mentioned what you've learned from Otto Scharmer, for example. Are there other key lessons that you've learned so far about self-management that you think would be useful to share...more
...es like Frederic Laloux and Doug and Miki, you mentioned what you've learned from Otto Scharmer, for example. Are there other key lessons that you've learned so far about self-management that you think would be useful to share? NK Chaudhary: I think when I meet all these great, great people, I see they are...more
...ary: I think when I meet all these great, great people, I see they are highly conscious people. And the world is moving towards consciousness. What I learned from them is how everybody can realise that when we are driven by the unconscious, this is in autopilot mode. So how to break the autopilot mode by b...more

Lisa Gill and Mark Eddleston celebrate 50 episodes of Leadermorphosis

...that, (after kind of failing in terms of my acting career), I worked in a number of different industries, until I ended up, kind of by accident, in a learning and development, like a professional training company in London. And that was my portal really, into leadership development and organisational cultur...more
...ompany in London. And that was my portal really, into leadership development and organisational culture. And because it was new to me, I started just learning about it kind of furiously: consuming books and going to conferences. And through that, I discovered the more radical side of things and came across ...more
... started to move in that direction more specifically. And then I met Karin Tenelius the co-founder of 'Tuff Leadership Training' in January 2016 and learned about how she had been helping transform companies to become self-managing since the 90s, and she and I started to write a book together about the st...more
...like 'Reinventing Organisations', I just became fascinated that this was possible and discovered all of these case studies and I just wanted more. My learning appetite sped up and that was yeah, my way into this world really. And now there's a growing community of people like yourself, and the more people I...more
...'re writing and very often on your podcast, you'll have the authors on. And in your writing, you're able to synthesise all the key themes that you've learned. So I think there's a lot of listeners that really really appreciate that. Now, you mentioned your book. Would you like to tell us any more about th...more
... in Sweden from the 90s onwards, (most of them small organisations in many different sectors), and the lessons, (sometimes painful lessons), that she learned along the way. And then my input - I guess I was a bit of a journalist. So I was interviewing her and interviewing some of the companies and then I a...more
...perhaps from the beginning, and this is something I recognise in myself a few years ago, when I first experienced transitioning to self-management, I learned about the new practices and then in my second experience I thought, okay, so we just apply those practices. And I think it was thanks to one of my fa...more
...e been doing it several years, and we've been following your podcast and I've contacted guests on your podcast, and we've had conversations, and I've learned from them. And we've like iterated some of their practices..." - that's really exciting that that's starting to happen....more
...nt that it's really tough, it's hard, but it's so worthwhile, and it's so rewarding, so, the commitment. And it really is a practice; it's a lifelong learning journey and everyone I speak to says that so that I think that's been a confirmation from something that I already had a pretty strong sense of. And ...more
...do you go big and transform everything at once? There's no one way to do it but I think it has to start with self and also to think about: "What's my learning edge in this? What's going to be difficult for me in this? What do I have to let go of in order to do this?" Because yeah, it's gonna be tough; chang...more
...eople who have a different perspective and to have a kind of, healthy debate. So that's also part of my hope as the podcast continues. In terms of my learning - I guess a sort of meta learning from the podcast has been how transformational conversations are: that yeah, I'm not the same person I was when I s...more
...tive and to have a kind of, healthy debate. So that's also part of my hope as the podcast continues. In terms of my learning - I guess a sort of meta learning from the podcast has been how transformational conversations are: that yeah, I'm not the same person I was when I started the podcast. Through these ...more

Margaret Wheatley on leadership and Warriors for the Human Spirit

...nt as we do our work as we live our lives we could be in a state of wonder right now we're in a state of fear and anxiety for good reason. But what I learned from publishing that book, which was very well received, I was very well received that it's still now a classic - it's still used in many college cla...more
...s because something in us in us, me personally, was triggered. It's not that anger exists in the situation. So we do a lot of work on meditation, and learning to know our triggers, so that we can go into these places of conflict and heartbreak and, and not be undone by them, not fall apart. This was my init...more
...groups of people, cohorts, occasionally, interacting in some way. And so that's the components. Developing a stable mind, creating direct perception, learning how to perceive more fully, mind body awareness, and learning to work with these very strong emotions - so that we can be in these places that provok...more
...ay. And so that's the components. Developing a stable mind, creating direct perception, learning how to perceive more fully, mind body awareness, and learning to work with these very strong emotions - so that we can be in these places that provoke and trigger us and be of service. So the whole meaning of be...more
...re in the grips of this overbearing 1984 kind of machine of Big Brother. So we all got excited when some corporations, some corporate leaders started learning to meditate. One of them was the CEO of Monsanto. And at the time, my colleague was in a meditation group in which he was part of this - this is just...more
...Lisa Gill: I wonder if you could share something about what you've learned about community and how to foster a sense of community, as you said that that was really important. What have you learned there. Margaret Wheatley: C...more
...something about what you've learned about community and how to foster a sense of community, as you said that that was really important. What have you learned there. Margaret Wheatley: Critical. Well, you know, all of the dynamics at play right now are destructive of community - fighting over fewer resource...more

Aaron Dignan on being complexity conscious and people positive

... and the 'how to' quite a bit. And I mean, what's interesting about the book is there's very little in it that's completely original. A lot of it was learned from other organisations, from other thinkers from trial and error. The challenge is not that the right things haven't been said, it's that they have...more
...ail, where people have to be fired, or where people lose their jobs or we do whatever it takes to succeed in the market by doing all this testing and learning. I mean, look at something like Facebook or Amazon right now, right? It can be taken to an extreme. And by the same token, the people positive one c...more
...Because, you know, you're a founder and a leader yourself, and The Ready is growing. What have been some of the challenges for you? And what have you learned personally about leadership and working in this way with others? Aaron Dignan: This has been an interesting one for me. Because The Ready is the firs...more
...he community and the boundaries and all that stuff that gets formed over time, was fluid and was actually co-owned from a very early stage. What I've learned is that you can share a commons, and have self organisation and self management, if the initial kind of intent and boundaries and simple rules are in...more
...t's a hard one to sort of break the habit on. Beyond that, it's really just about getting what you give. I mean, we have a remote culture. And we've learned a lot that if you don't care for the garden - if everybody just goes back and cooks dishes with vegetables - then you lose something. So there has to...more
...nvestment when everybody has autonomy and freedom to do what they will, and they have different relationships with the firm. And so I think I've also learned that there are times we need to ask for that - there are times we need to expect to make agreements around it. But we do need to care for this thing,...more
...cale them - bring them to life. Start by starting - just do something, start that looping process of going from tension to practice to experiment to learning to what's next. And then look for what's next after that, and keep following the thread. And if you find that you and your team or you and the commun...more

Jorge Silva on horizontal structures and participatory culture at 10Pines

...ck. And then with that, the points start to raise like 20 points or 30 points, each one. So the idea here is that this has like two main insights or learning points. The first one is that collaboration is better than competition, and this is far away from a romantic view of collaboration. Because empirical...more
...Lisa Gill: On that note, you mentioned three key practices that make up your culture and the way that you're organised. I'm wondering what you're learning in terms of - not so much in terms of structures and processes - but in terms of the skills or the mindset that's needed in order to work in this mor...more
...ader, I think that it's really important to... have the opinions and the involvement of others. So I think that this is one of the things that I have learned over time. I was in theory sure of that. But seeing that in practice is really nice. And it's really comfortable. Yeah, I think this is one of the id...more
...I would have just leaned on the fact that I'm the co-founder, and we're doing this because I say so! Jorge Silva: Yeah. So I think this is one of the learning points that I have. And it's really interesting when I say to other co-founders from other companies - and they are hierarchical - and they just unde...more
...d so I'm really happy that you're taking that on as your mission - to share stories and to spread the word and to teach people, you know, what you're learning so that they can be inspired and try things too. Jorge Silva: Yeah, sure. Yeah....more
...go back to normality, we need everyone to collaborate. And if we don't go that way, it is really hard to get rid of this virus. So I think one of the learning points here is that collaboration really is a game where you perform better. And the other thing is, sometimes when we talk about these kinds of ide...more

Peter Koenig on source, money and consciousness

...cluding money, (but not just money) would seem to follow, not to lead. And I referred to this person who starts something as 'a source', because I'd learned that from one of my partners back in the 1980s, and he called himself a 'source' rather than a 'founder' and I liked that word, because it seemed to ...more
...Lisa Gill: It's so interesting, because what I'm learning more and more, and having spent sort of five days with you in New Zealand just recently as well, is the paradoxical nature of this role of source. An...more
... total paradigm shift in my opinion. Peter Koenig: Yes. I totally agree. Totally agree because this kind of collaboration, once again, one we haven't learned, we haven't been educated in, in, let's say, the conventional paradigm of our education. What we've learnt in terms of collaboration is like on a pro...more
...ves and taking responsibility for their power. But there's also a huge piece of work for people who haven't traditionally had power to do in terms of learning and practicing to make decisions, to ask for when I need, to challenge things, to question things, to create proposals, to be a source of initiatives...more
...hem, inevitably, they leak out in some way. And that's why tyranny of structurelessness in organisations, when we try and get rid of hierarchy, and I learned this early on in my journey. I was very anti-hierarchy and now, I understand that if we try and reject hierarchy, we try and eliminate it, it shows u...more
... my purpose or our purpose together or not? And in terms of talking about the money work, I think there is great potential there and I think it is a learning edge for people exploring new ways of working to really interrogate our relationship to money. So I guess, on that front, in terms of the potential f...more

Keith McCandless and Henri Lipmanowicz on acting your way into a new kind of organising with Liberating Structures

...get everybody to participate in whatever is happening that one wants to do. It's a very simple thing that anybody can learn very quickly. You've just learned how to do 1-2-4-All. And now you can do it....more
...f interacting, of organising? And some people - there was a young woman at Microsoft, she had a group of 750, she'd come to a Seattle user group, she learned 25/10 Crowdsourcing. The next week, she did 25/10 Crowdsourcing for this idea generation, a single Liberating Structure for that group. Wildly fun, s...more
...s attracted to structure, the more they bring some other people together with them, the easier it will be. If nothing else, to start with in terms of learning? To do that with somebody that can watch what you're doing, give you feedback and vice versa... you're partnering with them and doing things - and Ke...more
...oing things - and Keith and I have a lot of experience in that ourselves - even doing things as a duo is an enormous difference. In terms of support, learning, comfort, you name it... and not feeling so exposed etc. And so that aspect is also something that is not instinctive for most people....more
...y'd say all the kinds of things you want in a mature organisation. They are Kaospilots, they give people, the students a chance to organise their own learning, truly from the ground up. I never went to an alternative school, I didn't shape my own education, I had some more freedom than most people. But this...more

Margaret Heffernan on how to act our way out of the status quo trap

...find a way to answer is by doing stuff differently and seeing what it gets you. And whether it gets you something positive or negative, you've always learned something. So, I think [there is] this reluctance to experiment - and in particular, on the part of a lot of senior managers - the tendency to requir...more
...ou can think your way to the answer. You can't, it's impossible. You have to do something different and see how the system responds. From that you've learned something that you can build on. But absolutely, none of us can solve these real world problems in our heads. It's not physics, it's not math. It's h...more
...Lisa Gill: Yes - I have learned that there seem to be two paradigms of leadership, or of working together. One is like kind of parent-child paradigm kind of traditional management p...more
...Lisa Gill: So the parallels between what we were talking about earlier in the conversation about the sense of learned helplessness or powerlessness that people often feel - it's the same challenge, right? How do we help people to see that they do have power, that the...more

Buurtzorg and the power of self-managed teams of nurses

...ing for more than ten years (they've since split into multiple teams). So it's really interesting to hear all of the insights and all of what they've learned over the years about communicating, giving each other feedback, what's really rewarding, what's really challenging. And I think probably my favourite...more
...Lisa Gill: So how do you do that? Have you learned something about how to create that safety in a team so that that communication happens? Jolanda: Yeah, well, we, we have a course, a training on how ...more
...ve made a mistake with someone in the past and it didn't feel right but we wanted to give her a chance. Chila: But it didn't work out very well so we learned from that!...more
... They were only a pain in the ass. Sorry! Lisa Gill: No, I love it! [Laughing] It's great. Chila: You can go edit it. Jolanda: You get progression of learning how you have to deal with problems. And you find out things that you didn't think you could do. Marian: And you stimulate each other. "You can do it!...more

Bill Fischer and Simone Cicero on Haier and the entrepreneurial organisation

...interesting to see those people who haven’t come up in that world, fresh from the source, so to speak, what challenges they’ll face in unlearning and learning this new way. B Fischer: So, one of the things is for sure — the people who run the micro-enterprises, quite a number of those people have come from...more
...nal kind of management bureaucracy, or they’ve come from some other context, which is so different that they’re not kind of porting over any of those learned habits. But for those who join Haier, who have had that kind of context, I just wonder if they get any support. What sort of training or are there pa...more
...I think it’s extraordinary. -L Gill: Yeah, and on that note thank you to you both for sharing so generously your time and your ideas and what you’re learning and…I learnt a lot from this conversation so it’s been really enjoyable for me to have this case study brought to life by two people who have really ...more

Miki Kashtan on the three shifts needed for self-managing organisations to thrive

...n about and explored at length as well. And, again, I think in self managing systems, this is another total paradigm shift. And it's more complex I'm learning than just "let's change this manager-subordinate power dynamic." There's so many other power dynamics and relationships to power that are sort of inv...more
... as opposed to domination or compromise integration. So those are those are some of the mindset changes. And the shift in terms of skill. It's about learning dialogue skills. And in particular, I can give two principles. The first one is: how to speak the deepest truth, which means owning it more within my...more

Frederic Laloux with an invitation to reclaim integrity and aliveness

...ith people listening to this podcast now in terms of something that might help them on their journey? A step they could take, some wisdom that you’ve learned? F Laloux: There’s two different questions in one, I think. You know, in terms of the practical things, I think people could go in very different di...more