Buurtzorg

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Buurtzorg and the power of self-managed teams of nurses
...Lisa Gill: I'm super excited about this episode because I got the chance to spend an afternoon talking to three nurses from Buurtzorg in Houten, just outside of Amsterdam. Buurtzorg is an organisation in the Netherlands that delivers care in patients homes. It was founded by Jos de ...more
...xcited about this episode because I got the chance to spend an afternoon talking to three nurses from Buurtzorg in Houten, just outside of Amsterdam. Buurtzorg is an organisation in the Netherlands that delivers care in patients homes. It was founded by Jos de Blok, who was himself, formerly a nurse. And he ...more
...he was really frustrated with how mechanistic the healthcare system had become and turning patients into numbers and dehumanising them. So he started Buurtzorg, because he wanted to create a business model where teams of highly skilled nurses could control everything from their budget to their schedules, to ...more
...en chips into help the other two with their English make a joke – she's got a brilliant sense of humour); and Yolanda. And they are three nurses from Buurtzorg. So I hope you enjoy. Here's our conversation. So Marian, you came across Buurtzorg and invited Jos de Blok here, to your house. How did you how did ...more
...ant sense of humour); and Yolanda. And they are three nurses from Buurtzorg. So I hope you enjoy. Here's our conversation. So Marian, you came across Buurtzorg and invited Jos de Blok here, to your house. How did you how did you find Buurtzorg? Marian: I was working in another organisation and heard some peo...more
...pe you enjoy. Here's our conversation. So Marian, you came across Buurtzorg and invited Jos de Blok here, to your house. How did you how did you find Buurtzorg? Marian: I was working in another organisation and heard some people had started [a Buurtzorg team] in Utrecht. I went to see how they work and I got...more
... Blok here, to your house. How did you how did you find Buurtzorg? Marian: I was working in another organisation and heard some people had started [a Buurtzorg team] in Utrecht. I went to see how they work and I got really enthusiastic and I was thinking "this is what I want to do!" Because I like my profess...more
...ting this up and everything. So how else is it different to the previous big organisation you worked for? If you were describing how it is to work at Buurtzorg to other people, compared to you know, more traditional healthcare companies? Marian: You have more time for patients... Chila: Communication is much...more
... eight and we end at four. And then you have several hours where you have no clients from 12 to three, three hours. And when we don't do anything for Buurtzorg, we cannot write them down. So it's very difficult to get enough hours to work. Yeah, but there are several people who have different tasks. So plann...more
...namic or something? And if so how do you handle that? Chila: We sometimes have had some of those things. You have to talk about it. You have to. It's Buurtzorg policy. And if you cannot work it out, you call the coach, and then there has to be a solution sooner or later. So we do that. Sometimes it's difficu...more
...And everyone likes to do different things. Some people like theory, others like other things. So you have different skills in your team. Jolanda: And Buurtzorg is also very far ahead in terms of the digital stuff, with planning for example. We have a very good ICT system....more
...Lisa Gill: Tell me about that. How does that support you, the IT system? Because I understand it's quite key to having self-managing teams at Buurtzorg. Chila: Because it makes everything very simple. You can find everything. So for one client, you can order stuff for the client or materials for the...more
...Lisa Gill: So say some more about that because I've heard a lot about how Buurtzorg evolves in a very collaborative way. It's not like Jos has a grand idea and then everything follows. It's very transparent and sharing ideas... Chila...more
...thing follows. It's very transparent and sharing ideas... Chila: Anyone with a good idea can post the idea on the web. We have a sort of Facebook for Buurtzorg, and then they put their idea there and people like it... Jolanda: You could bring in a project. For example, a few years ago we had a special lady w...more
...an in his nineties won! Jolanda: And Radio 'Steunkousen'. 'Steunkousen' are the supporting stockings. So they have a radio programme in Amsterdam for Buurtzorg. Chila: No, but Jos is also there. If Jos also has an idea, he puts it on the web and then he asked for comments. And everybody comments "I think thi...more
...then. How have things changed? Have you noticed big changes? How are things different now? Chila: It's bigger. And Jos has a lot of extra things like Buurtzorg in foreign countries, so he's busy with all sorts of things, all sorts of groups, and Jolanda: Jos isn't coming to our homes now anymore! Chila: No i...more
...advice would you give to people listening who are in organisations, maybe not even healthcare, maybe they're in an IT company and they're inspired by Buurtzorg and they want to work in a more self-managed way. What advice would you give them about how to make it work? Chila: Communicate. Marian: Yeah. And n...more
...er for the patients. And for us. Chila: Yeah, it's better for everyone. Jolanda: But you also have to take care of not to burnout because illness in Buurtzorg is high. So there are, I guess, a lot of people who feel too responsible. They cannot let it go. So that's also what you have to learn....more
...Lisa Gill: Yeah, it can be a shadow side of being really committed and passionate, where you work too hard. So how is Buurtzorg dealing with that? As an organisation, are you finding ways to address that and support people who are burning out? Jolanda: Yeah, well the coaches d...more
...at you would like to share with the world if you if you would wish to, you know, spread some wisdom? Or what else would you like people to know about Buurtzorg or about this way of working? Jolanda: Trust yourself that you can do it. Chila: Yeah, I think it's possible anywhere, in any company. If you let the...more
...erence that it makes. And with all of our ageing populations and the constant pressure to make cuts in the public sector, perhaps we'll see many more Buurtzorg-inspired examples popping up like Helen Sanderson's Wellbeing Teams in England, or Cornerstone, the social care company in Scotland. If you haven't h...more

Jos de Blok on Buurtzorg and the virtues of humanising, not protocolising

...ecording, that I met some of your colleagues in the Houten team a few years ago, and interviewed them in the garden. We had cups of tea, kind of true Buurtzorg style, so it's really fun to now get the chance to talk to you as founder and CEO and the person who started it all. So yeah, thank you for being her...more
...g you? Jos de Blok: On Thursday and Friday I had two days with the project team and with around ten people who are doing all kinds of projects within Buurtzorg and we were thinking about this situation of course (Covid) and what can we do in a way that the teams feel that they are inspired, supported? Becaus...more
... it with a lot of humanity and compassion and I'm curious because it was one of the questions that some of the listeners asked about actually was how Buurtzorg dealt with the pandemic, and in what ways you think that how you're set up and your culture helped you navigate that, especially given, as you said, ...more
...ere is Corona, how can we keep you safe? How can we perhaps reduce the amount of visits, but in a way that it's aligned? Not that it's a command from Buurtzorg this way, it's a dialogue. And this may be found a lot of different solutions. But I think you can't protocolise it. So you should ask the nurses and...more
... for example, the sickness rate now in some organisation is also higher but with some other organisation it's exploding almost - it's 12, 13, 14%. In Buurtzorg now it's 8%, which is also higher than the normal. But I think we're very happy that this responsibility is a collective responsibility. Let's go wit...more
...Lisa Gill: Yeah, this learning piece feels so strong for me whenever I've heard you talk and when I've read things about Buurtzorg that you have this amazing ability to, as you say, not protocolise things. I think it's also the same when different teams have developed new product...more
...rty, for example, or we have an event, then it's nice to see that people feel good, just by saying okay, I've chosen to work this way as we do within Buurtzorg, but I also feel that there is more than that, that it's that I'm interested in what I'm doing, that I'm rewarded in what I'm doing, that I can devel...more
...lot of organisations are creating damage for a lot of people by all the restrictions, by all the protocols, by all the the top down directions. I see Buurtzorg as a kind of a living organism where everybody is organically connected....more
...eally step in. So that very much came across to me also. I'm wanting to ask you these tough questions because I think so many people are inspired by Buurtzorg and I've had so many guests on the podcast who have created almost versions of their own of taking inspiration from Buurtzorg, and at the same time, ...more
... people are inspired by Buurtzorg and I've had so many guests on the podcast who have created almost versions of their own of taking inspiration from Buurtzorg, and at the same time, I speak to a lot of people who really struggle, particularly, for example, in the health and social care sector, many people i...more
...changing things, and making it more human for patients and for colleagues, but really struggling against the system and many people say to me that in Buurtzorg's case you created something from scratch and that has its advantages, of course. But I'm wondering what your thoughts are for people who are transfo...more
...edback and input and coaching and support. I do find that that's really valuable for people, especially in organisations, maybe slightly different to Buurtzorg where there's lots of cross-functional teams and complexity and a mix of managers and I think in an organisation where there's very competent nurses,...more
...ame time you have to build something which is based on very practical things. So the daily routines, for example. So what I did before I started with Buurtzorg, I wrote a lot about my expectations in how it can work in a team and what these principles and routines were, in my opinion, which could lead to res...more
...s a kind of standard programme on a certain theme. So I'm working a lot with Sharda Nandram and Sharda's professor, and wrote a wonderful book about Buurtzorg, it's called 'Organisational Innovation by Integrating Simplification', developed the integrating simplification theory - so simplifying processes is...more
... is that I see sometimes people who are very eager to start something, but they don't have a good business model. That's also what I see sometimes at Buurtzorg - that they say: "This working in teams and taking care of people - wonderful! We also want to do it". But, (I have these discussions a lot in the UK...more

Margaret Heffernan on how to act our way out of the status quo trap

...ents and debates about how it might be better, and just to get different perspectives on the problem that you're trying to solve. So if you take the Buurtzorg example - which I've written about - that was very much the brainchild of Jos de Blok. He also had a very great advantage in that he had two forms of...more
...Lisa Gill: Yeah, that's so true. I'm curious to ask you this question as well. Because I get asked this a lot. People always say - well Buurtzorg is an example of an organisation that Jos de Blok started from scratch. He had experience of traditional, very hierarchical bureaucratic healthcare o...more
...tion that Jos de Blok started from scratch. He had experience of traditional, very hierarchical bureaucratic healthcare organisations. And he created Buurtzorg from scratch and started recruiting nurses in those small self managed teams. What about organisations that are really wanting to move in this direct...more

Lisa Gill and Mark Eddleston celebrate 50 episodes of Leadermorphosis

...d of like: "What, really? Oh no. Well, okay". So I think that one was pretty special. And I think also a favourite for me was to meet the nurses from Buurtzorg, because I was such a fan of Buurtzorg and it was just such a surreal and wonderful experience sitting in the garden with those three nurses having a...more
...okay". So I think that one was pretty special. And I think also a favourite for me was to meet the nurses from Buurtzorg, because I was such a fan of Buurtzorg and it was just such a surreal and wonderful experience sitting in the garden with those three nurses having a cup of tea. It was a lovely, sunny day...more

Bill Fischer and Simone Cicero on Haier and the entrepreneurial organisation

..., actually, maybe there’s something in this”. And I think also perhaps the technology aspect as well, because I know how Haier and organisations like Buurtzorg are using technology as a way of kind of decentralising, in a way of kind of being able to get rid of a lot of the management functions — because you...more

Alanna Irving on leadership, decisions and money in bossless organisations

...bout it. It's experimental, and it's exciting, and it's purpose led. So it's much easier, I think. I can remember talking to some of the nurses from Buurtzorg and one of the challenges there is that people love their work so much, and they have so much autonomy, that the shadow side of that is that people a...more

Aaron Dignan on being complexity conscious and people positive

...are quite a few. We ended up collecting close to 68 cases for the book. The more famous ones are quite interesting - somewhere like a W.L. Gore, or a Buurtzorg, or Haier. They all have a lot in common. You know, W.L. Gore - they talk about the waterline, which I know you're familiar with. Things that happen ...more